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-# Codrin Bălan#Castor --- 2325
+# True Name --- 2124
 
-While he didn't quite have the singular ability to immediately make em like him as many of the Odists seemed to, Codrin found emself immensely charmed by No Jonas.
+True Name was early to her meeting, and that, she figured was okay. On a whim, she had picked, the same pub that she'd met Jonas in some time back, the one that reminded her of The Crown Pub from years ago, with the flat beer and the uncomfortable booths. She figured that Debarre, of all people, would appreciate this.
 
-"I got the short end of the stick." He laughed, gesturing Ioan into what appeared to be a living room of an apartment quite similar to the one ey had interviewed True Name in. A little less perfect, a little more lived-in. "Jonas Prime decided to name all of his instances with a syllable, I got stuck with No, of all things. I'm sure there are sillier ones, at least. We Jonas? Oi Jonas? Just call me Jonas so we don't get confused."
+She ordered herself one of those beers that she loved to hate, sat down in a corner booth with a commanding view of the entrance, tail flopped over the edge, and waited.
 
-Codrin grinned and sat on a reasonably comfy --- if slightly ratty --- chair  across the table from the couch that Jonas flopped down onto. "I suppose there has to be some scheme for dispersionistas to use to keep track of each other that isn't just the default random string of letters and number."
+While she waited, she thought about all of the different reasons that Debarre might have asked to meet. There was always the possibility that the weasel had figured out just how deep she and Jonas had gotten in their work, though she suspected that that wasn't the case. Debarre was smart, yes, but political adroitness was not his strong suit. That had been the root of the worry --- shared by him --- that he had been let onto the council merely by his proximity to Michelle and connection with the lost.
 
-"Of course! You know the Odists. I should've done something like that. Take an old rock song and name myself after each of the lines." He shrugged. "But no, I think they've got a lock on that idea. This one's inventive enough without being too annoying. Usually."
+It could also be that he had further questions about why it was that Michelle had chosen the Ode as a clade scheme, and that perhaps he wanted to discuss why it was that all of the clade seemed so averse to mentioning the author of the poem.
 
-"They do pull it off quite well," ey said, pulling out eir pen and paper. "Though some of their short names work better than others. I like Dear, and I think True Name works well as a...well, name."
+And, as she hoped, he could simply just want to hang out. Spend time together like friends, like they used to.
 
-"Oh? Did you talk with her?"
+With that in mind, she focused on composing herself into a state of friendly alertness, so that when the weasel walked into the pub and spotted her in the corner, she would be primed to guide him toward that last possibility, even if he had come expecting the first two.
 
-"Yes, she was the last Odist I interviewed, actually. At least, here on Castor. The Codrin on Pollux is interviewing others, and my down-tree instance on the System is taking yet another path. This way, we get a good spread while transmission times are short."
+She watched him step inside, look around, and immediately laugh. After picking up a cider at the bar, he made his way over to the booth she'd picked and plopped down across from her.
 
-"How is Ioan, by the way?" Jonas asked, winking at Codrin. It was a sly enough way to let em know that he'd done his reading.
+"Cheeky choice," he said, grinning.
 
-"Oh, well enough. We've all been stressed in our own ways."
+True Name laughed, shrugged. "What can I say? I was feeling nostalgic for terrible beer."
 
-"I'm sorry to hear that. I'm curious, though, in what ways do your stresses differ?"
+"Cheers to that." He lifted his glass to hers, clinked the rims, and took a long sip. "So, how've you been, skunk?"
 
-Codrin tilted eir head. "Well, Codrin#Pollux recently had a dinner party with some other Secession-era people. Some from the Council of Eight, and a Yared Zerezghi, who was apparently important phys-side."
+Small talk was not a guarantee that this was simply a social visit, but given the tone of his voice, she doubted that anything too heavy was on the table.
 
-"Ah!" Jonas said, grinning. "How is Yared? Though I guess you weren't there."
+"Pretty good, actually." She smiled. "Things are going well on the legislative front, phys-side, which is good. It makes my job easier. Who knows, may even take a vacation."
 
-"He sounded alright. He told a story about how he worked with politicians both here and phys-side." *About you and True Name,* Codrin thought to emself.
+"Oh man, a vacation sounds good, though God knows what I'd do. Probably just sit on my tail all day and get fat on the greasiest food I can find."
 
-"We spent a lot of time working together, yeah. Nice guy. Did Codrin#Pollux have much to say about Debarre and user11824?"
+"Feeling the workload, then?"
 
-Ey froze in the middle of eir note-taking.
+He shrugged. "Not particularly, no. It's just that I'm starting to wonder just how cut out for politics I really am. I haven't the faintest idea on how to get people to do things without sounding like I'm bullying them, and I'm not going to put all the work into it that you have. You and yours, I mean."
 
-Jonas held up his hands. "Just a guess. Ezekiel never leaves his border of Jerusalem, the Russians are gone, and I doubt Dear would've let True Name visit."
+"Yeah, it is no small amount of effort," the skunk said. "But it will be worth it in the end, I think. Plus, I figure that once we secede and the launch goes off successfully, we can probably just sit back and let things run themselves. No one has managed to cause any problems that cannot be solved by them simply having the fistfight that they so desperately crave."
 
-"Good guess, then. They all certainly sound interesting. Debarre seems nice, user11824 seems weird. Ey also talked to me about eir interview with Ezekiel, which was apparently quite prophetic."
+Debarre laughed and shook his head. "You gotten in any of those lately?"
 
-Jonas laughed.
+"Thankfully not," she said, grinning toothily. "I do not expect to, though."
 
-"And Ioan is getting hounded by strange historians while also doing eir best to keep up with interviewing the Odists." Ey hesitated, considering whether to pass on the warning that Ioan had received from End Waking, then decided to plow ahead. "One of them told em to be careful interviewing you, that you'd control the whole thing."
+They drank a moment in silence, each of them peering around the pub, each thinking their thoughts.
 
-"Did he now? Well, I suppose I will. It's one of those second nature things, you know. I apologize if that sounds sinister, I promise it isn't. I do as Jonases do, just as you do as Bălans do, and that is to speak to the things that interest me. I'm just better than others at ensuring that that happens."
+"How are you, Debarre?" True Name finally asked. "Aside from work, I mean. I know that we have not had much of a chance to just sit and talk, recently."
 
-Codrin nodded as ey wrote. "Alright. Are you okay if I start asking questions, then?"
+The weasel doodled lazily on the tabletop with a claw. "For all my bitching, I'm doing alright, actually. That's why I wanted to meet, though. Just catch up."
 
-"Of course, ask away."
+True Name smiled. *Perfect.*
 
-"First of all, and I'm not sure how well this applies to a dispersionista such as yourself, but did you --- No Jonas --- leave an instance back on the L<sub>5</sub> System?"
+"You know," he said. "I was thinking about Cicero a few days back, and how, after he hung himself, I thought that the grief would never end. Like, I thought that I had been completely redefined from 'Debarre the weasel' to 'Debarre who grieves', and that's just who I was from then on out."
 
-"Oh, sure. There didn't seem to be any reason not to, you know? I figure there's enough of us Jonases up here to have our fun, and plenty back down on the System to keep things interesting."
+She hid a sudden surge of emotion behind a sip of her flat beer, nodding. "It was hard. Both of those losses were hard."
 
-"Did any of you invest entirely in the Launch?"
+Debarre nodded. After the reference to both losses, he seemed on guard, or ready to jump out of the booth at a moment's notice.
 
-"Yeah, a few of the A branch did. And before you ask, plenty stayed behind, too. It was all pretty well organized. We figured out who was doing what and then followed the plan."
+"I am sorry that I snapped at you a while back," she said, reaching out to pat at the paw that had been poking absently at the grime on the tabletop. "That is a name that I would like to keep close to my heart and prefer not to say out loud. Also, given that ey was not strictly supposed to defect to the S-R Bloc, it still feels risky. The spooks *definitely* should not hear it."
 
-"Was there any particular rhyme or reason to it?"
+"I get that," the weasel said. He had relaxed, but not all the way.
 
-Jonas waved a hand vaguely. "Basically just who was specializing in what."
+"And I think that I understand what you are getting at," she continued, turning her default smile into something wistful, something sad. "I am as at risk of letting grief define me as anyone, but I am still doing my best to memorialize rather than languish."
 
-"Was there any danger for those who specialized in stuff back on the System coming up here?" ey asked.
+"That's good, at least," he said, finally smiling back to her. "I've been a bit worried about that, if I'm honest, but I trust you. The shit you've been pulling off lately with the council is honestly impressive, True Name. You and all your clade. I'm doing my best to understand you, sure, but I promise that's out of awe rather than fear."
 
-"Terminal boredom?" He laughed. "Really, though, there's stuff that needs doing there and it's better to be efficient."
+She laughed, raising her glass to him. "Well, thank you. I am glad that Sasha was able to take a step back and get the rest that she so richly deserves, just as I am glad that she left me with my own *raison d'etre*. I *like* all of the shit that I have been pulling off. It feels good to accomplish stuff."
 
-"Do you think they'll miss the excitement of the journey?"
+"Good! That's good to hear. It's sort of what I'd picked up on, too. I'm not sure that I was doubting you before, necessarily, but having watched you these past few weeks, I don't know." He grinned and finally returned the patting gesture in turn. "I get it, now. You're not Sasha, that's for sure, but you're not *not* her, and I see all of the best things I liked about her in you and the few others in the Ode clade that I've met."
 
-"We all have our jobs to do, Codrin. System politics aren't like those back phys-side. There's no reason to slack off and not do your job just to have some fun when you can send a fork to do the same for you and then enjoy all those memories, right? No3 Jonas is out on a date right now, actually."
+They beamed at each other, all bristled whiskers and perked-up ears.
 
-Codrin nodded as ey jotted down the answer. "I suppose it's the same as with me and Ioan. At least to an extent, the Odists also infected us with their hopeless romanticism."
+The conversation wound around for a while longer, with talk of plans and memories, likes and dislikes, gossip and news. True Name allowed herself to earnestly enjoy the afternoon, now that any concerns that she might have had about the meeting had been assuaged.
 
-"Of course they did. That's what they're built for. A life in theatre primes one to keep a tight focus on manipulating emotions. They're all incredibly focused on stories, aren't they? All of the interesting ones, at least."
+Eventually, they made their goodbyes and she left the sim, allowing herself to sober up in the process in order to make the next meeting on her agenda.
 
-"There are boring Odists?"
+For some reason that she couldn't fathom, Life Breeds Life But Death Must Now Be Chosen had chosen to incarnate himself as a scholarly gentlemen, somewhere between respectable and nerdy. It was a good look, she thought, but what train of thoughts had led him to head down that route from Michelle evaded her.
 
-Jonas shrugged. "Michelle and Sasha were boring. Those who stuck around with her or focused on their little art projects, they were pretty boring."
+After a pleasant greeting in the lobby of the library, they wound their way up the spiral staircases to the law section, three levels up. There was no particular reason that they needed to head there, other than the fact that it was liable to be fairly empty --- few had to read up on phys-side laws, here --- and would still be a comfortable place for them to walk and talk.
 
-Codrin frowned.
+"So," Life Breeds Life said, once pleasantries were out of the way and the cone of silence had been set up. "Why did you want to meet today?"
 
-"Don't get me wrong, of course. I like them all! Delightful, to the last, but I'm the dangerous politician, remember? All those I find interesting are the ones who tickle all my politician instincts. It wasn't an insult."
+"During discussions with Praiseworthy and Ir Jonas, I started to realize that there were some steps that I might need to take when it comes to the historical view of the clade. There is already the forceful de-emphasizing of AwDae's name, thanks to Praiseworthy. She thought it a good hook, and it has already proven its utility. None of us want it out in the open, anyway. I guess, given your interest in history and memory, you seemed like the most likely to be interested in helping continue that effort."
 
-"Alright," ey said, quelling a low rise of anger; after all, if Dear was anything, it was one keenly focused on its art projects. "Either way, thanks for answering. The next question I had was about your involvement with both Secession and Launch. Were you involved in both?"
+He grinned. "You guess correctly. I have been considering some aspects of that, as it is. Before I go off on that, however, I would like to hear your ideas."
 
-"Oh, more heavily in Launch than Secession. I was forked slightly after Secession, but there was still work to be done. I did a lot of wrangling of notes, data collection, stuff like that. For Launch, I did the same, just front-loaded. It's some of the boring work that goes into politics, but work that still needs to be done."
+True Name nodded, lazily brushing fingerpads over the spines of law books and case files. "Firstly, there are some aspects of the clade that I would like to remain within the clade. The Name is an obvious example, but I would also like to keep the impact that we have had within the Council minimized to a level more believable for Michelle's initially stated goal."
 
-"And in between the two?"
+"To confirm," he said, looking thoughtful. "You want to ensure that it appears that each of us did a tenth of the work that she was doing previously and that our voice was only as loud as any other council-member's. Correct?"
 
-For the first time since the interview, Jonas grinned in earnest. It was writ so plain across his face that the shift cast all of the previous smiles in doubt. "You've been getting some interesting answers to your questions, haven't you, Codrin? All of the Bălan clade has, I mean."
+She nodded.
 
-"Why do you ask?" ey said, digging eir heels to keep from being dragged into a defensive stance.
+"That should be doable."
 
-"You got to that question surprisingly fast."
+"It will require a bit of fudging, at least for myself, as to how many instances actually exist for the clade. I believe that it would reflect poorly on us to say that we were initially ten, and then for someone to dig up that I had already forked three or four times less than a year after Michelle's decision."
 
-Codrin nodded, waiting Jonas out.
+His laugh was kind. "Oh, good. I am glad that I am not the only one."
 
-"Between Secession and Launch, I was pretty boring. I did some data collection for some of the other work that was going on. Phys-side is always changing, beholden as they are to the whims of Earth and the restrictions of being tied to a single body in a single location."
+"Not by a long shot," True Name said. "It seemed like a good thing to downplay."
 
-"So you followed that? Kept up on the data gathering?"
+"Yes, it is, come to think of it. There are enough concerns about capacity as is. It might seem as though we were already aiming to test that so early on."
 
-He nodded. "Yeah, that was my area of focus. Some of the others were digging around sys-side, but life changes much more slowly here without those external factors. We kept on working with the Odists, too, as I'm sure you've heard. There was much to do."
+"Mmhm. The second thing that I was thinking was more of a question for you."
 
-"It certainly sounds like. Did you or your clade guide much beyond Secession and Launch? I know that there was some work done surrounding the finances of uploading in the mid to late 2100s. Were there other areas of activity?"
+Life Breeds Life nodded.
 
-Jonas leaned back against the couch, toying with a loose thread at one end of it with his fingers. "Here and there, yeah, but I'm not really the person to ask about that. I'm sure one of you will get into it with True Name, or maybe even snag some time with Jonas Prime."
+"How far in the future do you think we should be considering these changes?"
 
-Codrin nodded and made a note to that effect.
+The answer was immediate. "Centuries." 
 
-"You have to understand though, Codrin, none of this was like some sort of shadowy conspiracy, like you may be thinking. We did what politicians do: we represented our constituents and duked it out --- metaphorically, of course --- with other politicians."
+True Name frowned. "Really?"
 
-"Are we your constituents?" ey asked. The words were out of eir mouth before ey had time to consider it.
+"Yes. There are some that we can do right away, but those steps are more in Praiseworthy's court: downplay the number of instances, minimizing our perceived role on the Council, *et cetera.* The aspects that are in my jurisdiction, however, are ones that will take years and decades to form. Histories written after the fact bear the weight of having undergone analysis, the shifting of public knowledge --- at least, what they think they know --- takes place over months and years. Time is on our side, though, as you well know."
 
-Jonas laughed, shaking his head and tugging that fiber on the couch all the looser. "In a way, yes. We may be a separate legal entity, but we don't work the same. We're not a government. There are no representatives. We don't vote. Better to say that the System is our singular constituent. You are our constituents only in the sense that there are still some who have to work on keeping the System going. We're the ones who organize with the phys-side engineers to keep everything ticking along. We're the ones who ensure that new uploads are smoothly integrated. We're the ones who ensure that the System keeps growing."
+"Of course."
 
-"Keeps growing? Can you expand on that?"
+"That is not to say that I will not start right away, of course," he said, laughing.
 
-"It's nothing complex. The larger a system --- that's system with a lower-case 's' --- is, the more stable it is because it tends towards stasis. This applies to political systems, as well. The Western Fed and the S-R Bloc kept their stalemate for God knows how long because they were too large to do anything but, and the only reason they stopped was that they were each subsumed into even larger political entities."
+"Oh, I do not doubt you will." She grinned. "What were your thoughts, though? You mentioned having some changes that you would like addressed as well."
 
-"So, if I'm understanding you right, keeping the population of the System growing over time--"
+"Yes. I would like to eventually downplay the role of the Council of Eight in history to the point where those sys-side simply think of those who helped out in the early days as founders, dreamers, and idealists."
 
-"Not just the population," Jonas interrupted. "The capacity. The complexity."
+True Name stopped in the aisle, letting Life Breeds Life step ahead and turn to face her. "You would like the System to forget that there was a council?"
 
-"--the more stable it is because it tends toward stasis?"
+"It is a way to build a mythos and identity, yes. It allows us to use the words 'freedom' and 'secession' and so on in a collective sense, as though these were the decisions of all, rather than a few. It will instill a sense of patriotism, if one could call it such a thing, for being sys-side, which will in turn reduce the connections that many feel to phys-side." He smiled, tugging a book from the shelf at random and flipping through the pages. "This will not happen for this generation. Nor, likely, the next. The goal for future generations, though is to ensure that they feel that the System is a place to live rather than a place where they wound up, or a place that they uploaded to simply because it was convenient or necessary, or even a place that they uploaded to simply for the way life works here, whether it be immortality or the sheer hedonistic joy of it."
 
-"You put it more succinctly than I did."
+The skunk watched the pages flip beneath Life Breeds Life's fingers and thought. To downplay the council would be to minimize the work of years, of almost a decade. The other members might rankle, but she was pleasantly surprised at how comfortable an idea it was. It would gain her and Jonas much needed room to maneuver.
 
-Codrin waggled eir pen at Jonas. "I'm the writer out of the two of us, you're the politician. What do you mean by stasis, though?"
+Eventually she nodded, saying, "That makes sense, yes. If the concept of the Council disappears into foggy memories and untrustworthy histories, then any attempts to lead again will seem out of place, too. It will give Jonas and I more latitude to continue working long term."
 
-"If we were phys-side, conservatism would probably be the word one would reach for, if only because the sheer burden of legislation grows exponentially complex with the size of the small-s system that all of the other aspects of the system start to fall under its branch.
+"Precisely." He replaced the book on the shelf. "Down the line, too, I am considering suggesting that we say that we uploaded after Secession. Say in the thirties. Not far enough to be an obvious lie, but enough distance from it to give us the space to act as we must now so that we can act as we will later."
 
-"Here, though, we tend towards stasis. It's a type of stability that implies a cessation of change. It's not a bad thing. Boring, maybe, but boring is safe. Still, it's only a tendency, and it approaches that point asymptotically. The bigger the system, the smoother things run because the rough spots and sharp edges are harder to feel. It needs to be gardened and nourished. That's all we do."
+True Name felt the smile grow on her face, earnest and excited. "Excellent. Excellent thinking. Keep me up to date as you go, though I do not expect the updates to come all that quickly."
 
-After ey caught up taking down eir notes from Jonas's short speech, Codrin sat in silence for a bit, considering the next path to take on the interview.
-
-"Do you have any other questions?" Jonas asked. "Not to rush you or anything. I'm just wondering if I should fork to get some work done."
-
-"Just one more, I guess. Not one of my prepared ones, but you've given me a lot to think about. How does Launch fit in with your concept of stasis? That feels like an awful big change. It even decreased the population of the System back home."
-
-Jonas shook his head, chuckling. "I'm not the one to ask that one, Codrin. I've specialized way too much into data analysis. You can ask True Name about that, or Jonas Prime. I'm just parroting things we talked about a century and a half ago."
-
-"I will, I'm sure, but can you give me your best guess? I'd still like to hear it," ey said.
-
-"Best guess? The System was deemed stable enough to undertake the launch project, and the project was deemed likely to produce a secondary stable society. Beyond that, beats me."
-
-Codrin nodded and, seeing Jonas begin to rise, stood from eir seat, shaking the offered hand.
-
-Jonas saw em to the door, saying, "I hope I didn't add to your stress, Mx. Bălan. You're doing good work, and I hope it's also enjoyable."
-
-"It's certainly intriguing. You've given me a lot to think about, and I'm sure Ioan will agree."
-
-"Of course. If you have any further questions, don't hesitate to ask." He smiled to Codrin, and the smile was the least earnest ey had seen yet. "And I look forward to seeing what you come up with."
-
-It wasn't until Codrin was back at the house on the prairie, back with eir family, back where ey was comfortable enough to work on transcribing eir notes, that ey came across the phrase that had left em so wrong-footed during the interview.
-
-Ey frowned, stood up, and paced around eir office for a few minutes, stopping at the end of each circuit to stare out at the prairie beyond the windows. Ey was starting to feel as though there were coils of some sort wrapping around em. Thick, fleshy things that squeezed around eir middle, bound eir hands, held em silent. They did not kill em, did not force em to move, to watch. They did not force em do do anything. They just held em there, letting em know that, at all times, they were present.
-
-So ey sat at eir desk and wrote a footnote for eir transcript that ey'd send back to Ioan and May Then My Name.
-
-> Check my work, Ioan. As you have read, Jonas asked what each of our stressors were, and I mentioned a sentence or two about each of us and what we'd been doing that had been keeping us busy.
->
-> You'll notice that, for you, when talking about End Waking, I said, "One of them told em to be careful interviewing you, that you'd control the whole thing."
->
-> His reply: "Did he now?"
->
-> I don't think I messed up the transcription, and you know as well as anyone that our memories are all there for our perusal. I've thought and thought and thought on it. I shouldn't doubt, and yet I do, so check my work.
->
-> I said "one of them", and Jonas said "did he now". I asked Dear, and it said that there were relatively few male Odists in the clade (*"one fewer, now"*).
->
-> Did you tell anyone that you were interviewing End Waking other than May Then My Name? I don't mean to cast doubt on either of you. I think you feel just as bound up in this as I do, but I need some clarification as to how Jonas knew that you had interviewed one of those relative few. I need that clarity. I think we're beyond wants, now.
+Life Breeds Life laughed. "Of course not. If we are to think long term, we must think in terms of decades to work in centuries. If we are lucky, we must think in terms of centuries to work in millennia. We have plenty of time."